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#1 Iratu

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 12:27 PM

This is all the feedback I've gotten so far, I will edit this post when I get more.

 

 

 

 

 

Ashnasties


Well I can say that I like the new look of ATF! I don't have any complaints, the layout is pretty straight forward, easy to navigate.

 

I have a couple of suggestions though....

 

Like in the troubleshooting section, maybe make some subsections, because it can be time consuming and frustrating to try to hunt down a particular issue. Or make a search bar that would pick up on keywords.

 

And the other suggestion is a section for tutorials for the various tools used to create and or modify the textures for a PC for an example. Now I now there are all kinds of tutorials on the intrawebs and the webpage the tool came from, but it would be nice to have them in one place.

 

That is all I can think of at this time, so keep up what you are doing and thank you for an awesome website!


 

NaughtyLoli


Heya, Iratu!

 

Personally, I still like the older version better than this one, but that's just me. Love the banners though, quite original :P If only someone *cough*me*cough* would have the original banner, with the right comment in the bottom right corner....

Aaaaaanyway, what I think can be improved on is the story section.. I don't quite get how it works... Now that is probably my inability to comprehend those things, but maybe other people skilled at writing are shyed away from it... Just saying...

 

I love the gallery, it's really full and great. What I don't get though is why it sorts my favourites on upload date, rather than on date-of-faving. Too bad there are so many pictures with so little tags... If it were fewer, people would've been more likely to help out in tagging, but this is just too much, I guess.... Anyway, great work as always! Chaos-boss would be proud, I'm sure :)

 

Tenzin

Not a huge fan of moving all the stories to a wiki. Personally I prefer the clean look and easy posting you get with the forum layout. The wiki setup just kind of turns me off to ever venturing into that section.

 

chubby_loli<3

A chatango chat would be nice... its a bit more practicable than that shoutbox thing.... its free and easy to integrate

 

also i want to see a "hot or not" thread for lolis and real (strictly no nude) girls ^^

 

Faulkner



The only thing I can think of is more stuff added to the download section like the things that have been posted in the Video & Games forums; other than that I can't really think of anything.

 

Anyways have a nice day.

 

Felix Zane

The only thing I want changes is having the way the story board back how it was.

 

yeti

I admit that if possible I would like the site's captchas not require javascript. The last time I saw a captcha was when I was trying to reset the password on my account (thank you for doing that by the way), though, so I don't know if they still require javascripts

 

ShadowX57

We need a better mobile solution, maybe an app. I am taking mobile programming classes right now, I can see if I could get something working, but I would need both permissions as well as content, hopefully not needing to copy off the site and pasting it in my app. maybe we could get a secondary push going to push the app along, It would not be very hard on the hardware, if your running anything decent. Just let me know.    

 

Primus



How about starting to list all the downloads in the download section with different areas for each, like pics, videos, games, all of that stuff, maybe even combinations if unavoidable or easier to deal with and make or better since some of us hate the part downloads since we can only have limits on those and it would be better to compile them into one download.

 

Then there is the gaming section.  Probably would be good to have it like LoversLab since we also understand that section.

 

If I know anymore ways, I'll list them later.


 


snarfies

 

I am only here for Skyrim mods - and now that there's a download section I am fine in the regard.

 

Maybe encourage more people to use the download section in general, is my only suggestion.

 

 

 

Cirn0

 

Shut all images option (banners, userpics, screenshots etc) would be nice. Just a text web pages in other words.

 

 

 

jacxxx

 

Hi Iratu,

 

atm I'm only enjoying your marvelous gallery, where my 'basic settings' are incomplete (see https://allthefallen...nge/#entry60984). Could you repair that? (I'm using Chrome  Versie 45.0.2454.101 m (64-bit) )

 

In other booru sits I always liked to see the favorites of othe like minded users. Very often, when one of my favorites is the same, many more turn out to be the same, also when it's about fetishes I even didn't know.

 

Outside the gallery it seems a bit of a mess, may be due to not very strict moderation but also due to system and server changes. Maybe tumbleupon or similar could be added? Well, I'm just shouting that, don't have experience except for older forum formats. 

 

Cheers,

J

 

 

 

 

Equestrian Romanji

 

The biggest thing for me is the themes.

The current one is identicle to my online

college. It throws me off and just looks

... bad. I miss the peach of the old site.

-So more themes if possible.

 

Also, there seems to be absolutely no

spellcheck on this site? I've tried with

different browers. I keep embarassing

myself.

 

:D

 

 

 

hmwbdcp

 

I have a few suggestions, but it's nothing I can't live without. I just think it would make things a little better.

 

First - avatars.

It would be great if they were SFW. This way I could browse the list of new topics without the risk of my family seeing anything "vividly bad".

Second - signatures.

I believe it would make reading the threads a lot easier if the signatures were smaller.

Also a more pronounced divider between the post and the signature would be very cool, because as it is now, it can be difficult to say where the text of post ends and text of sig starts.

Third - list of people currently browsing the thread.

As it is now, they are listed at the bottom of the page. It would be convenient to have that placed also at the top of the page.

 

I think this is all. If I come up with anything else (I doubt it) I'll write again.

 

 

 

Reminder to self:

 

 

Edit box size picker.

 

 


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#2 Iratu

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 12:28 PM

Tim_Merrigan_54

 

If you're going to keep the stories in a seperate forum, you should add some indicator for when a story (thread) has been updated since the last time one has looked.

 

(Ideally the stories should be moved back to the "Stories" subforum of the main forum.)

 

 

 

AFT-OL-47

 

I think the change i would like most to see is a maybe a simplified system for adding stories. I have a lot of good ideas (some of them originally posted on the old site) but the wiki system seems daunting to say the least

 

 

 

CeilYurei

 

Hmm...I can;t think of many...our own games section to play flash games here would be cool but possibly not doable.

 

 

 

Cirno

 

Sorry for the delay.

 

I think the booru is underused and suggest 2 fixes :

 

1) Make uploading items not so scary, I wanted to upload a file that wasn't on there and was just baffled by the sheer amount of rules and pages and tags I had to verify before doing it, and decided in the end not too because it was too much trouble for me for just wanting to share a file.

 

2) Show the pictures & attachments in posts, but make them uploaded to the booru as well for verification. This way they would still be accessible in the forums, but would also bolster the booru quite a bit. (even though that would be an additional hassle for the mods)

 

 

Maybe some fun contests with mini-prizes here and there to have a weekly something to do? Doesn't even have to involve anything worth money, I just enjoy a bit of competition and it could get more content here.

 

 

 

Diamondi

 

My only issue is the layout of the tabs. They have no order.

This is primarily a forum so it should go as follows.

Forums - Shoutbox - Chat - Friends - Gallery - Downloads - Stories

[Community] - [Content]

 

 


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#3 Iratu

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 12:28 PM

Sorted list of all suggestions.

  • NaughtyLoli: Too bad there are so many pictures with so little tags... If it were fewer, people would've been more likely to help out in tagging, but this is just too much

    This has been worked on and now only around 17K images have "tagme" which used to be 180K :)
  • chubby_loli<3: A chatango chat would be nice... its a bit more practicable than that shoutbox thing...

    I'll see how that is and maybe I'll replace the Shoutbox with that.
     
  • yeti: I would like the site's captchas not require JavaScript. The last time I saw a captcha was when I was trying to reset the password on my account (thank you for doing that by the way), though, so I don't know if they still require JavaScript

    Capcha's sadly require JavaScript but this is only for password recovery and signing up to the board, once registered I don't think its required to use, but for password recovery you can also send a mail from the address you registered.
  • ShadowX57: We need a better mobile solution, maybe an app. I am taking mobile programming classes right now, I can see if I could get something working, but I would need both permissions as well as content, hopefully not needing to copy off the site and pasting it in my app. maybe we could get a secondary push going to push the app along, It would not be very hard on the hardware, if your running anything decent.

    I'll discuss with our other admin Sinom if he wants an app like that, I do think it would be nice to have.
     
  • Cirn0: Shut all images option (banners, userpics, screenshots etc) would be nice. Just a text web pages in other words.

    This could be done with a theme I think, I'll see what can be done.
     
  • jacxxx: Outside the gallery it seems a bit of a mess, may be due to not very strict moderation but also due to system and server changes. Maybe tumbleupon or similar could be added?

    I'll look into the tumbleupon but no promises can be made with it.
     
  • Equestrian Romanji: The biggest thing for me is the themes.
    The current one is identicle to my online
    college. It throws me off and just looks
    ... bad. I miss the peach of the old site.
    -So more themes if possible.


    More themes is possible, we currently have 3 themes, one which allowes you to change its colour, I'll probably look for some more themes to add.
     

  • Equestrian Romanji: Also, there seems to be absolutely no
    spellcheck on this site? I've tried with
    different browers. I keep embarassing
    myself.

    I'm currently using Firefox and it seems to work fine for me (red lines all around xP)
  • hmwbdcp: It would be great if Avatars were SFW. This way I could browse the list of new topics without the risk of my family seeing anything "vividly bad".

    I kinda second this but I can't make this decision alone this will be discussed with other moderators and Sinom.
  • hmwbdcp: I believe it would make reading the threads a lot easier if the signatures were smaller.
    Also a more pronounced divider between the post and the signature would be very cool, because as it is now, it can be difficult to say where the text of post ends and text of sig starts.

    I'll do something about the max height and will look into the post/signature separation.
  • hmwbdcp: list of people currently browsing the thread.
    As it is now, they are listed at the bottom of the page. It would be convenient to have that placed also at the top of the page.

    I think its best to keep this at the bottom of the page.
  • CeilYurei: Hmm...I can;t think of many...our own games section to play flash games here would be cool but possibly not doable.

    You can upload Flash games to the Booru as well
  • Cirno: Make uploading items not so scary, I wanted to upload a file that wasn't on there and was just baffled by the sheer amount of rules and pages and tags I had to verify before doing it, and decided in the end not too because it was too much trouble for me for just wanting to share a file.

    Uploading is not that scary, we require only Loli, shota, Toddlercon or Furry tags. the rest is optional
  • Cirno: Show the pictures & attachments in posts, but make them uploaded to the booru as well for verification. This way they would still be accessible in the forums, but would also bolster the booru quite a bit. (even though that would be an additional hassle for the mods)

    We might look into a way to add a link to directly upload that file to the booru, the reason an automated system wouldn't work is because to upload automatically you'd require an API Key and since the account system from the booru and Forum are separate this would require people to sign up on the booru and make an API key which most users probably wont do but if requested enough I could look into a system to allow uploading from within the forum.
     
  • Diamondi: My only issue is the layout of the tabs. They have no order.
    This is primarily a forum so it should go as follows.
    Forums - Shoutbox - Chat - Friends - Gallery - Downloads - Stories
    [Community] - [Content]


    I'll re-order them since your suggestion actually makes sense to have it like that.

Game Mod section:

  • Ashnasties: make some subsections, because it can be time consuming and frustrating to try to hunt down a particular issue. Or make a search bar that would pick up on keywords.
     
  • Ashnasties: A section for tutorials for the various tools used to create and or modify the textures for a PC for an example.
     
  • Primus: Then there is the gaming section. Probably would be good to have it like LoversLab since we also understand that section.

My replies in Bold Purple means official business and you better listen ;)

 


#4 Ulithium_Dragon

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 08:54 PM

Well, a lot of junk to sift through lol, but I did start to make an effort to move some of my stuff to the downloads section (modding stuff I mean).

 

I do think you should do something with the "all" part of the "Game Mods" download section (like have it actually show everything). Presently, the section appears blank and says "This category doesn't have any files yet" until you click on one of the sub options (i.e. Skyrim, Fallout, Oblivion, Sims).

 

Also "Fallout" should either be split into "Fallout 3" and "Fallout: New Vegas", or at least say both of those (like "Fallout (FO3/NV)"). This is because A) Mods made for one will not work with the other, and B) Organization will need to change anyways early next year after Fallout 4 is released and then the modding tools finally are...



#5 yeti

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:10 AM

I kinda thought my message would be a private message. And there's an annoying typo in it, even. It isn't that big a deal if you don't take it down from there but I'd appreciate it if you did.
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#6 Iratu

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:15 AM

I kinda thought my message would be a private message. And there's an annoying typo in it, even. It isn't that big a deal if you don't take it down from there but I'd appreciate it if you did.

 

I modified your reply to only include the Javascript bit.


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#7 yeti

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 01:22 AM

I kinda thought my message would be a private message. And there's an annoying typo in it, even. It isn't that big a deal if you don't take it down from there but I'd appreciate it if you did.


I modified your reply to only include the Javascript bit.

Thank you.
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#8 Jemini

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 04:11 PM

I'm seeing a lot of stuff about images and banners. I thought I would pitch in and comment that I very much see where they are coming from, and would like to suggest an in-between option that would be a bit more difficult to implement but nicer to have. Basically, an option to select witch banners you do not want to have coming up so that only the ones that might not get you in trouble will appear if you view it where that's a danger, or only the really raunchy ones if you are safe from that and want that to be your experience, or only the loli images or only the shota images depending on your tastes. Basically, customize it to you.

 

The hardest part in this in-between option though would be people's sigs and avitars. Implementing something like this for them would be a logistical nightmare with an un-listable number of situations that could upset any effort to cherry-pick through them.

 

As for the thing about the stories people keep bringing up, while I am one of the people who pushed for the wiki I actually had not meant for that to replace the stories section, but rather to exist along side it to give people options. I agree, the forum method is a lot more straight-forward and has a lower barrier to entry for people who want to write. The wiki provides far more options to skilled writers and I love it, but it requires you to kind of know what you are doing.


Had to change my avi because I am getting into some game making. The old profile was a little political, so I don't want the two controversial subjects of a politically charged avitar mixing with the equally controversial subject of a loli game.

 

As for the game, you can follow the game here. https://allthefallen...updated-170331/

 

Also, Elerneron finally gave me a good reason to make a patreon page. You can find that here. https://www.patreon.com/Jemini2


#9 Ulithium_Dragon

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 09:02 PM

I'm seeing a lot of stuff about images and banners. I thought I would pitch in and comment that I very much see where they are coming from, and would like to suggest an in-between option that would be a bit more difficult to implement but nicer to have. Basically, an option to select witch banners you do not want to have coming up so that only the ones that might not get you in trouble will appear if you view it where that's a danger, or only the really raunchy ones if you are safe from that and want that to be your experience, or only the loli images or only the shota images depending on your tastes. Basically, customize it to you.

 

The hardest part in this in-between option though would be people's sigs and avitars. Implementing something like this for them would be a logistical nightmare with an un-listable number of situations that could upset any effort to cherry-pick through them.

 

As for the thing about the stories people keep bringing up, while I am one of the people who pushed for the wiki I actually had not meant for that to replace the stories section, but rather to exist along side it to give people options. I agree, the forum method is a lot more straight-forward and has a lower barrier to entry for people who want to write. The wiki provides far more options to skilled writers and I love it, but it requires you to kind of know what you are doing.

 

I have mentioned that a "checklist" style selector would be nice before. As it's apparently a lot easier than I thought with IPS to make extra User CP options, I don't actually think this would be too much work, either.



#10 Erundil

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 07:42 AM

also i want to see a "hot or not" thread for lolis and real (strictly no nude) girls ^^


For the love of everything on this world holy, please don't do it. No real life kids, nude or not, it's way too risky.

If you want me to answer - quote my post in yours.

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#11 Your Worst Nightmare

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 08:06 AM

 

also i want to see a "hot or not" thread for lolis and real (strictly no nude) girls ^^


For the love of everything on this world holy, please don't do it. No real life kids, nude or not, it's way too risky.

 

Its already against the rules to post and/or link pictures/videos of anyone underage.

 

Although I guess it could be done with noticibly older women & 2D art for the hell of it.


So cute <3 [NSFW]

#12 Erundil

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 08:28 PM

Cirn0
 
Shut all images option (banners, userpics, screenshots etc) would be nice. Just a text web pages in other words.


Not a bad idea, as long as it's not just "remove pictures" but rather replace them with <here was pic>, so that we know we're missing on something.
I mean - the text can correspond to the picture and make no sense without it. If the pic is removed without a trace, it may be hard to understand some posts.

If you want me to answer - quote my post in yours.

I'm sorry, but I have an opinion on your opinion.


#13 tallshortie93

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 03:09 AM

Personally, I think the threads where hentai videos and video games are shared is an absolute mess. There's a strong presence of paid links on the site, at least in the loli section from my experience, but I imagine the shota threads are similar in nature. These paid links are often swarmed with pop-ups and advertisements. Who knows what shady backdoor shit is going on inside our computers by using these paid link sites. I do NOT trust some of the host sites either. Mediafire, Mega.co, Dropbox, Google Drive...all reputable in my books...but some of the sites that this content is uploaded to here are often shady sites I've never heard of. Granted, this is probably because the content is so controversial and even illegal in some areas and people don't wanna risk one of the big companies reporting them to the feds or anything...I get it...But it's such a hassle when I want to try to check out a loli hentai vid or game and have to sift through a shit ton of pop-up ads to reach a download page that sometimes doesn't even have the file I want, all the while letting tons of nasty cookies and worms into my system.

 

Personally, I'd like to see the rules be amended to only provide download links to reputable online storage spaces with no paid link middleman shit involved. If a member finds a video or a game that uses one of these shady sites and wants to share it, they should re-upload it somewhere else and then share it in the way I've proposed. I can't tell you how many times I've been horny, figuring I'll check out the vids or games section of the loli board and download something, only to get blue balls when I have to sift though all this online garbage to be greeted with a page that says the sexy ass loli content i'm searching for does not exist,

Please fix this, ATF.

Thanks.


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#14 Erundil

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 10:55 AM

One more suggestion: option in settings to disable the shoutbox. I don't ever care to read it and just ignore it ever since it appeared. But it does take a lot of important space at the top of the page I'd rather have filled with something more relevant to me (forum topics).

Again - it's just a suggestion and if it's not fulfilled I'm not gonna leave ATF or start sulking or anything.


If you want me to answer - quote my post in yours.

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#15 Iratu

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 03:03 PM

One more suggestion: option in settings to disable the shoutbox. I don't ever care to read it and just ignore it ever since it appeared. But it does take a lot of important space at the top of the page I'd rather have filled with something more relevant to me (forum topics).

Again - it's just a suggestion and if it's not fulfilled I'm not gonna leave ATF or start sulking or anything.

 

There already is an option to turn this off,


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#16 Erundil

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 06:12 PM

Cool :)


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#17 Sinom

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 05:49 PM

Personally, I think the threads where hentai videos and video games are shared is an absolute mess. There's a strong presence of paid links on the site, at least in the loli section from my experience, but I imagine the shota threads are similar in nature. These paid links are often swarmed with pop-ups and advertisements. Who knows what shady backdoor shit is going on inside our computers by using these paid link sites. I do NOT trust some of the host sites either. Mediafire, Mega.co, Dropbox, Google Drive...all reputable in my books...but some of the sites that this content is uploaded to here are often shady sites I've never heard of. Granted, this is probably because the content is so controversial and even illegal in some areas and people don't wanna risk one of the big companies reporting them to the feds or anything...I get it...But it's such a hassle when I want to try to check out a loli hentai vid or game and have to sift through a shit ton of pop-up ads to reach a download page that sometimes doesn't even have the file I want, all the while letting tons of nasty cookies and worms into my system.

 

Personally, I'd like to see the rules be amended to only provide download links to reputable online storage spaces with no paid link middleman shit involved. If a member finds a video or a game that uses one of these shady sites and wants to share it, they should re-upload it somewhere else and then share it in the way I've proposed. I can't tell you how many times I've been horny, figuring I'll check out the vids or games section of the loli board and download something, only to get blue balls when I have to sift though all this online garbage to be greeted with a page that says the sexy ass loli content i'm searching for does not exist,

Please fix this, ATF.

Thanks.

 

That is the price people pay for illegal downloading, especially when it resolves around grey area content in most countries. For convenience, there are sites such as the DLsite where they sell these games, but they sell them at outrageous prices. If you want semi-reliable download links then I would suggest torrents, but that is sketchy too on occasion. Suffice to say, people have to use proper ad blockers and think with their head and not their dick when they download stuff, cause most scams can easily be noticed.


Consider helping ATF grow by donating. Every dollar counts.


#18 Ulithium_Dragon

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 06:20 PM

 

Personally, I think the threads where hentai videos and video games are shared is an absolute mess. There's a strong presence of paid links on the site, at least in the loli section from my experience, but I imagine the shota threads are similar in nature. These paid links are often swarmed with pop-ups and advertisements. Who knows what shady backdoor shit is going on inside our computers by using these paid link sites. I do NOT trust some of the host sites either. Mediafire, Mega.co, Dropbox, Google Drive...all reputable in my books...but some of the sites that this content is uploaded to here are often shady sites I've never heard of. Granted, this is probably because the content is so controversial and even illegal in some areas and people don't wanna risk one of the big companies reporting them to the feds or anything...I get it...But it's such a hassle when I want to try to check out a loli hentai vid or game and have to sift through a shit ton of pop-up ads to reach a download page that sometimes doesn't even have the file I want, all the while letting tons of nasty cookies and worms into my system.

 

Personally, I'd like to see the rules be amended to only provide download links to reputable online storage spaces with no paid link middleman shit involved. If a member finds a video or a game that uses one of these shady sites and wants to share it, they should re-upload it somewhere else and then share it in the way I've proposed. I can't tell you how many times I've been horny, figuring I'll check out the vids or games section of the loli board and download something, only to get blue balls when I have to sift though all this online garbage to be greeted with a page that says the sexy ass loli content i'm searching for does not exist,

Please fix this, ATF.

Thanks.

 

That is the price people pay for illegal downloading, especially when it resolves around grey area content in most countries. For convenience, there are sites such as the DLsite where they sell these games, but they sell them at outrageous prices. If you want semi-reliable download links then I would suggest torrents, but that is sketchy too on occasion. Suffice to say, people have to use proper ad blockers and think with their head and not their dick when they download stuff, cause most scams can easily be noticed.

 

 

We have a downloads section now, so some of the stuff CAN be moved there. Of course, should really be careful about what we post in the open - we already got one request from a game's developer to remove "free download links"...

 

I would probably say something like: "Is the game/doujin older than 5 years? Then nobody probably cares lol."



#19 Erundil

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 04:36 AM

I would probably say something like: "Is the game/doujin older than 5 years? Then nobody probably cares lol."

Not always, not really, not necessarily. They copyright holders keep requesting deletion of the Mass Effect 1 game I share. And my hosting provider keeps deleting it. They file a request at least twice a month. Just so you know the game is from 2008, so more than 5 years now.


If you want me to answer - quote my post in yours.

I'm sorry, but I have an opinion on your opinion.


#20 Ulithium_Dragon

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 04:56 AM

I would probably say something like: "Is the game/doujin older than 5 years? Then nobody probably cares lol."

Not always, not really, not necessarily. They copyright holders keep requesting deletion of the Mass Effect 1 game I share. And my hosting provider keeps deleting it. They file a request at least twice a month. Just so you know the game is from 2008, so more than 5 years now.


I was referring to the sex games and/or doujins we are posting, *NOT* to games owned by "worst company in America as voted by consumerists for over a DECADE"...

(In case that wasn't clear enough, I was referring to EA, whom owns the rights to Mass Effect)

#21 tallshortie93

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 05:22 AM

To be clear, I wouldn't be totally opposed to using some unknown file-hosting site if 1) the content was actually there and 2) The download link was the actual DOWNLOAD LINK and not a link to some paid link middleman bullshit. Also, it's pretty underhanded, don't ya think? Every time someone clicks on the link, someone gets paid. I ask the question...who is getting paid through these paid links? If its anyone besides the person who keeps the servers up and running for the site...and it's used for anything OTHER than keeping the servers running...there's a problem with what's happening there.


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#22 Iratu

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 10:36 PM

3rd Post added With replies to the Suggestions the purple stuff is me :)
 
 
 


My replies in Bold Purple means official business and you better listen ;)

 


#23 ptk

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 02:30 AM

3rd Post added With replies to the Suggestions the purple stuff is me :)


what of those things has been tackled since this post?

#24 scmm1

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 01:19 AM

nice



#25 Ulithium_Dragon

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 03:39 AM

nice


Seriously guys, at least TRY to farm your posts in relevant areas.

This is an absolutely ANCIENT thread about information that has been irrelevant for well over a year at this point...


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